"This judge also made me put my school age child in public school within 10 days. My child was 5 years old at the time and I was homeschooling. Judge Mangum said that since I didn't have a college degree in teaching, my child needed to be in a public school. NC Law states that a child doesn't have to be enrolled in school until age 7 and all that is needed to homeschool is a high school diploma. When I did put him in school, the teacher said that he was above the other kids on all levels. I feel that Judge Mangum overstepped his bounds not only in my case, but in this case as well. His reasonings for putting these kids in public school are against the laws set up for the state to homeschool."
This commentator makes a serious point. It should be done:
"This is very interesting "logic" on the part of Judge Ned Mangum.
"They allege, you deny" is what he repeated. He stated that this is what he would order in response to any similar allegation - so all that was needed was an allegation of drug abuse, or alcohol abuse, or physical abuse, and he would also have ordered assessments for all of those things - without one shred of supporting evidence or "probable cause.""
If there is an attorney that will bring a case before Judge Ned Mangum and raise the issue of his mental abilities, then, according to Judge Ned Mangum, he will order himself tested. In addition, raise the question of attorney Jaye Meyer and Mr. Mills.
All three, according to the very clear evidence have the inability to show empathy or comprehend cognitive processes in assimilating facts. Compromise and working together are seriously lacking in their social skills. Maybe if Judge Ned Mangum went back to public school for a few more years this might improve. We will find out when he is tested by trained professionals.
They would rather make normal things seem out of place and out of place matters seem normal. Definitely a symptom of bad sanity.
I am serious, since they are serious. I will even pay for the case to be brought into Judge Ned Mangum's court room.
Since we need no proof, nor hint of proof, which there is plenty of anyway, let the testing begin.
Anyone being dragged before Judge Ned Mangum should immediately, before being sworn in, raise the objection. Anyone going into his court room should object on the grounds that clearly he cannot, will not process facts. Don't waste your money. Just let Judge Mangum's injustice roll over you and save your money for appeals."
From the News&Observer website:
"My money says if the order is written to send the kids to public school, and the woman then appeals, she'll win the appeal. The judge can not terminate her right to home school without cause, and there is no cause, period. She's not on trial nor is home schooling. I think the judge realizes this, he's now back-pedaled and asked the parents to propose changes to the order, which is in effect telling the hubby he's got to give - i.e. the only thing being contested in the order is home schooling termination (read the 4th to the last paragraph) - so now the judge is not standing firm and is asking the parents to propose changes, he's seen the light. As far as her religion goes, people, it's of no consequence or effect here, no use trying to drag that into it. The judge certainly hasn't made reference to it, and, unless he's a complete idiot rather than just having been temporarily without his faculties, he won't. She'll get to home school, you guys suck it up....."
Posts
33 comments:
That is the point I believe he is trying to make, that all teachers should be a professional with a degree in teaching. There is one state who has adopted such a rule that all you need is a certificate to teach...Florida.
Where is Florida on the education map? Don't know, they are so low it is pathetic. He is basing his judgments to send them to a public school because the teachers there have a degree in teaching and should, yes should, be able to teach.
The problem lies within overcrowding of schools which is the main reason why students are not getting the valuable education they deserve. I for one have noticed this first hand. I went to a private military based school in Florida and I was at least two years behind compared to the students who were there at least 2-3 years prior to my arrival.
I don't agree 100% that they should go to public school and public school only. Perhaps a common ground can be met, send the child to private school and both parents should pay for it. This way, you are not subjecting the child to a public school environment where they may be getting less the acceptable education, but they are not being isolated within a home school setting.
Just a thought
Hi. My father just sent me a link to the WRAL article. Is the Home School Legal Defense Association involved in this at all? I sent them an email asking just a few minutes ago.
What if your friend decides to leave the state and take up residency elsewhere?
How sad,
What a pathetic excuse for a judge. To abuse children this way. What terrible emotional damage he is doing. We can only hope someday that his family is treated the same so he can learn a valuable lesson.
Just read about this case. I must have missed it in the HSLDA newsletter. My heart goes out to Venessa and her children. No judge has the authority or capacity to parent someone else's child(ren). Judge Mangum totally overstepped his bounds in this case and should be removed from the case if not from the bench entirely.
I will do my part to get the word out about this. This level of injustice should not exist in the United States any longer. Fight hard Venessa, and thanks to you Robyn for bringing significant attention to this case.
An article regarding this issue is posted on: http://wnd.com:80/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=91397
Try contacting Alliance Defense Fund regarding this issue.
Hope you read this.
I have spent 7 years in the Wake County Courts with my ex-husband. I have to many stories I could tell and I have heard many from other women along the way. I wish I could say this surprises me, but I can't. I did learn one thing in those years and that is things aren't always as they appear. Another words, the issue isn't homeschooling. The issue is, most likely, the ex-husband getting away with paying as little support as possible. If they can get the children into public school, then the courts will say that Ms. Mills has the ability to make an income. Then they will impute that income on her and subtract that (and more) from the support her husband will have to pay.
Wake County courts are heartless. Take it from a mom with an autistic son whose husband took it all with the courts help. I really feel for Ms. Mills. I am glad that this site is here to inform the public. If the taxpayers of this county only new the games that are allowed in this court at their expense, they would be astound. During my time I wrote to my congressmen and only Sen. Hunt was kind enough to respond. Wake County courts need a jolt of reality and accountability. My prays are with you.
After reading 80 books on a list put out by a group of teachers who called themselves, "The Teachers Drop Out Group," I was convinced I should home school my third child. I had previously fought for special education for my cerebral palsied child and than later, was sorely disappointed in my son's struggles.
My daughter is now 34, has her Master's degree and is teaching at a college close to here.
My own education had gaps even though I had a high school diploma and some college of only two years. The home schooling helped to educate both of us.
She finished at fourteen. Oklahoma does not allow college at that early age so we put her in Vo-tech. That two year diploma was invaluable to her when she attended college.
All in all it was a wonderful journey and even though I'm no teacher and have spaces in my own education with tutors and the on-line instructions, we managed just fine. I loved every moment of it. There was no shutting of my child off in a box of a room for classes, the world was our teacher and we took full advantage of that freedom with learning experiences varied and rich with experience.
Donna Jones Flood, author, artist
"How To Keep Up With The Joneses"
"Velma, Fleur De Narcissus"
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/america/donna/index.htm
home page: http://stonescry.tripod.com/
We are praying for the mom
and the children. It is a sad day in American History, the beginning of the death of liberty.
May God Bless the mom and children with the ability to homeschool and may the Lord grant the husband a change of heart.
I hope that mom will get HSLDA involved - if she is not a member, become one - it is for times such as these. There should be no way for this judge to get away with this. Kathy
I do not know the rules on homeschooling in NC, but in Alaska many of us parents Home school our children. I choose to home school one of our 4 children for personal reasons. He was not doing well in Grade school and the public school system just kept passing him on.. He never had to try, they would just send him on to the next grade. Finally in the 7th grade I pulled him out, made him repeat that year doing Home schooling and continued to school him for the next 3 years. He did graduate from a public High school after we felt he could do the work without Mom MAKING him finish the work, and turn it in ALL on his own..I agree social interaction is important but our son had plenty of that with the home school community. We have many activities in our community for children who are home schooled. Field trips, small classes, tutoring etc. Any help we needed was readily available. I feel she should be able to raise her children as she feels. It is not in their best interest to be in public schools. The Judge needs to stay out of her family business. Her husband is just trying to switch the attention away from his "mistakes" to the children.. Why is this Judge letting him continue with this??
Hear Robyn on The Sandy Rios Show (Fri 03/13/2009 Hour #1) - use this link:
http://culturecampaign.com/culturecorner.aspx
I've posted on my blog about this. Not that I get a lot of readers, but perhaps some more little bit to help.
http://pondrings.org/?p=988
Russ
Voddie Baucham has some cogent observations here:
http://www.voddiebaucham.org/vbm/Blog/Entries/2009/3/12_NC_Judge_Forces_Homeschool_Children_into_Government_school.html
I've sent in my protest from Richmond, Virginia. If the judge gets dismissed and Venessa has the opportunity to a fair hearing,does she have a fund set up where people can donate to help with legal fees? I wouldn't be able to donate a lot, but if God can multiply 2 loaves and five fish, he can multiply a small donation.
What is the point in having a law or constitution if a judge can just dismiss it as if it never existed? Something is very wrong with this. One mother loses her rights to homeschool when her child is only five and the compulsory age is seven, then this? How many more are there? Something needs done about this.
There is clear agenda when a loving mother has been ordered to have a psychological evaluation and there is no just cause for it, especially when the father has written the courts clarifying she is a wonderful mother, teacher and has done a wonderful job with the children. Again, it is alarming that a judge can have so much power as to abuse his seat and put a person through unnecessary distress just because he can.
To place these impressionable children in the NC public school system after having such a wonderful experience learning from their mother lacks common sense, especially when the witness and testimony of the father is only positive. His inability to keep his marriage in tact should not cost the rest of his family. We all know that North Carolina's school system is failing our children as a whole. We also know that the turnover for teachers is significant because they are unable to endure the issues that are at large in the schools. NC is offering to pay college students to pursue teaching because of this desperate situation. Suspensions are taking place as low as first grade. Gangs are such an issue that elementary school children are told to not wear the gang colors for concern they will be harmed if they do. Teachers complain of not being able to get children to accomplish anything, because of behavior issues and lack of cooperation from parents. And this judge believes this is the environment that is 'better and healthier' for these brokenhearted children? This is the 'social environment' he says they need? Nothing could be further from the truth! These children are being tossed around like rag dolls by the judge, attorney and father. Their wellbeing is of no concern to conclude such decisions. The psychological and emotional devastation this will have upon these children can be prevented, yet is seems to not be of much concern. Instead, the focus proves to be more for the father and how HE will be affected. Even though he is the one who made the decision to break his family apart. If a man wants to leave his family to be with another woman let him. However, he should maintain his responsibility to protect, preserve, and provide for those who once trusted in him. He should be sensitive to the pain he has caused.
The country is watching NC leaders to see if they will actually endorse such injustice or if they will intercede for this young family. I hope they will step up to the plate and confront this making it right.
HSLDA offers grants to single parents who are trying to homeschool..and those who are struggling families. This is a very special situation. Also, you do not have to come up with all the membership money at once. You can pay just $10 a month for 24/7 legal defense! Please call them because they are going to be your strongest defense.
I am praying.
Although I do understand how difficult this can be for Ms. Mills, it appears to me that the best interest of the children are not being served here. To publicly question the character of their FATHER - half of them - opens the door for ongoing relationship issues throughout their lives. What purpose is served by publicly accusing him of adultery. I have personal experience with this issue as my husband committed adultery 8 years ago when my childre were 10 and 7. Although we eventually did divorce, my primary focus became protecting my children. Through much therapy I learned that the best way to protect them was to help them continue to hold their father in high esteem by NEVER disclosing the affair to them. I have followed this advice and they are healthy and well adjusted now. I have also assumed my fair share of the financial responsibility of raising them. It is not fair to assume that the man should 100% support his wife and kids in these economic times. Please put the overall needs of your children first. Homeschooling is just one aspect of their overall development.
Just to clarify: nobody is "questioning" the character of the father, or "accusing" him of adultery. He admitted to adultery in sworn affidavits and testimony under oath. We are stating facts.
While we can respect your decision, the alternate point of view is that the children deserve to be told the truth.
The overall needs of the children ARE being put first. What hope is there for ANY of our children if justice is allowed to be trampled on in this way.
We don't live in North Carolina, and we're not sure how much we can impact the government there. But we would like to help.
Has a fund been set up for Ms. Mills' legal expenses? We'd like to contribute, and I'm sure others would too. Of course, if the ACLJ or HSLDA were to take up the case, that would be ideal.
We are sickened by a culture which doesn't seem to care about someone breaking their word anymore. The husband has admitted to adultery. This should speak volumes about how much he really cares about his children.
This judge needs to learn not to fix things that aren't broken! If the mother is doing a good job schooling the children, why change now? The "socialization" excuse is an old, tired, fallacy. When else in life, except in a school classroom, is anyone going to be spending all day in a room with 20 - 30 people the same age?
Personally I don't believe in protecting children from the truth. Someone broke the family up and it sure wasn't the Mom. The kids should know who it was. Not being honest with your children only teaches them to be dishonest. Sorry, that's just how it is. Life happens. Dad made mistakes, he should be held accountable, both to his wife AND to his children. He broke their family bond, he changed their lives forever. He should not be protected - and that's who's being protected here because lying does not protect children from anything. But it's sure to protect the Dad from accountability!
This story has been posted on www.digitaljournal.com and already has over 400 views and close to 100 comments.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/269146#tab=comments&sc=1331257
I hope she wins her appeal and is able to continue to teach HER children the way she knows is best.
Let me get this straight. This "father" controls the money as if it's 100% his, thereby committing theft. He continues his extra-marital relationship and refuses to move out of the house thereby ensuring his children have to witness this ugliness on a daily basis. This monster’s abuse is so out of control that he doesn't even provide milk for his children, but the judge orders a mental evaluation of …Mom? This is precisely what the court is supposed to protect families from! They are supposed to look out for the best interest of the children, which certainly is not to further turn their lives upside down by changing their environment in public school, and exposing them to further abuse from that man, who has clearly proven by his actions that he is NO FATHER! That judge needs to be removed from the bench permanently. Send him to public school. Give him a law manual. Apparently many of his cases are as horrid as this one.
"A Civil Action" with John Travolta is a great movie to understand what Mrs. Mills is up against.
Let me get this straight. This "father" controls the money as if it's 100% his, thereby committing theft. He continues his extra-marital relationship and refuses to move out of the house thereby ensuring his children have to witness this ugliness on a daily basis. This monster’s abuse is so out of control that he doesn't even provide milk for his children, but the judge orders a mental evaluation of …Mom? This is precisely what the court is supposed to protect families from! They are supposed to look out for the best interest of the children, which certainly is not to further turn their lives upside down by changing their environment in public school, and exposing them to further abuse from that man, who has clearly proven by his actions that he is NO FATHER! That judge needs to be removed from the bench permanently. Send him to public school. Give him a law manual. My heart goes out to the others who have suffered under his “justice”.
In my opinion very smart move on Mrs. Mills not to object in writing as the Judge will just gain more information on her position, then twist back the argument on her attempting to make himself look good by having read everything. Do not give this guy any more ammo to shoot you with.
For all you wana-be lawyers and lawyers, state law makers and others:
Objections:
I object based on the facts to proving my mental sanity.
I object based upon the facts to "neutral" home evaluation Judge Magnum has messed up.
I object to resorting to powdered milk.
I object to not having enough money to put up a defense.
I object to my husband being allowed to bagger me every night as I prepare for court.
I object to powdered milk.
I object to the courts telling my children I need my head examined.
I object to ruining well-adjusted children.
There, need any more objects.
What doesn't the legal system understand?
To state this mother "needs" get her objections in is a huge insult.
I have previously posted on this site that this case is not at all unusual, and not at all about homeschooling. This is about "father's rights" taking precedence over everyone else's. And, unfortunately for women of faith, the basis of the father's rights movement is a theory of "christian reconstructionism" and the prevailing christian conservative ideology.
Translation = women and children are chattel, owned by men, and have no intrinsic value or rights outside of the marriage. They are valued and protected ONLY to the extent that the father wants them to be.
Remedy = make divorce difficult to obtain, and punish the *mother and children* in every way possible, in order to send the message to society that divorce is bad for women and children. Even better, take the children away from the mother and give sole physical custody to fathers at every available opportunity.
THIS is the reason so many cases are decided exactly like Venessa's, all over the country, for the past 20 years, whether they were homeschooling or not.
www.angelfury.org
www.protectiveparents.com
www.kidjacked.com
www.achildrights.com
Video:
http://blip.tv/file/725837
Please look into an online public school for your children. It could be an interm option while you fight the court order. It would be better than sending the kids to a public school building.
Gee, if the kids go to public school and are put in the grade level that they tested for, they will suffer from being a couple of years younger than all their classmates. If put in an age related grade, they will suffer from boredom. I say this from personal experience.
What about the "parents" of children who use homeschooling as a crutch. Meaning, some "parents" are lazy and uneducated and have no business homeschooling a child. North Carolina states homeschooled children have to take a yearly test, however, they do nothing to enforce this. I would like to know why?
STATEreligion school will challenge the ideas that I taught them
I understand that Marriage is a social institution. We're not talking child neglect here -- we're talking a parent who takes her faith seriously and children who are excelling at the "standardized" tests required for "advancement" in education.
Wake County Judge Ned Mangum granted Thomas and Venessa Mills joint custody of their children — ages 10, 11 and 12 — and ruled that the children's "best interest" would be served by sending them to public school this fall, according to a temporary custody order.
But Venessa Mills insists her association with the Sound Doctrine Church played a "big factor" in Mangum's ruling, in which he also ordered her to undergo a mental health assessment within 30 days.
"He disregarded the facts and said that even though the children are thriving in home school, they'd do better in public school," Venessa Mills told FOXNews.com. "It's a clear cover-up by the judge. He made a bad ruling about home schooling and he is clearly covering his tracks."
If this was the Roman Catholic Church-sponsored home schooling and a local Bishop backed Mrs. Mills' right to educate her children in the Faith she chooses -- I wonder if the Bishop would have the chutzpah to go head-to-head with the Judge/Court?
I see the Judge selectively awarding the husband's "rights" to wield presumed "equal justice" against a fit parent. I also see the Judge using [in typical societal fashion] the weapon of the psychological priesthood to undermine the credibility of the mother's strong religious beliefs. The unspoken message created by Mangum ordering Mrs. Mills' psychological testing and NOT BOTH PARENTS: Shows Nedman's clear bias against strongly-held Christian beliefs.
Most insidiously -- the marital strife is cleverly being used by Nedman as an "opening" to surgically-remove the children from the sanctuary of their home educational garden and dump the children into the public cesspool. The judge is the one who needs the psychological evaluation ...not Mrs. Mills!
This is another clear example of SAMSreligion usurping the chosen preferential religion of a parent and using the "family courts" as a STATE WEAPON to re-educate non-kosher children.
They should be called the "SAMSreligion propaganda preservation and reeducation courts" instead of "family courts".
Quite simply: No Christian parent is permitted to educate their children in their home -- especially if they are "creating citizens" who abhor the State's SAMSreligious values [including sexual permissiveness, a contraceptive mentality, legalized abortion, divorce, in-short: all the "values" common to communism.]
Mrs. Mills reconizes this fact:
"He said that public school will challenge the ideas that I taught them," Mills said.
Judge Mangum is accepting-of and oblivious to the infidelity and adultery Mr. Mills is teaching his children and imposing upon his marriage:
"She withdrew emotionally from me," said Mills, who admitted to having an affair.
The ego-centrism of Judge Mangum affirms my thesis that SAMSreligion's commandments insist that they impose STATEreligion over-and-above any form of traditional Christianity.
I am hoping this information will be sent onto Vanessa Mills. She really needs someone in there who can challenge this legally. Her rights were violated, and I could not refer anyone better to be a defense for her. They are offering it free right now, especially for her situation. Please read the following and pass it onto her! I believe the website is hslda.org--but you can google it and you will quickly be able to find it too.
What's the benefit of being a member of HSLDA? One of the biggest is that
if you are a member, they will represent you at no charge if you find
yourself in a legal battle about homeschooling.
From the HSLDA E-lert Service...
> ======================================================================
>
>
> March 19, 2009
>
> Join HSLDA--for free--and help secure your right to homeschool
>
> Dear Friends of Homeschooling,
>
> Parental rights are under attack. If you've been reading our emails
> for very long, you've seen it too: there is an almost continuous
> barrage of challenges to the vital child-parent relationship and the
> rights of parents to direct the upbringing of their children.
>
> HSLDA has done much to secure educational freedoms for homeschoolers.
> But our work is not done. Therefore, we are asking you to consider
> becoming an active member of HSLDA.
>
> Right now we are making it an easy decision. For a limited time, we
> are offering a free trial membership. Join by April 30, and approved
> applicants will be granted a free membership good through July 31,
> 2009.
>
> Send no payment; there's no commitment. This is an opportunity for
> you to see how committed we are to securing your right to
> homeschool--and to do so successfully.
>
> This offer for a free membership is short. The opportunity to sign up
> extends only through April 30--so please don't delay. Of course, you
> will be able to renew for continued benefits after this trial
> membership period.
>
> We remain willing and able to protect your right to homeschool. We
> also know that homeschooling can be challenging. That's why we're here
> to help you with both your legal and practical homeschooling needs.
>
> Please accept my invitation to complete an application and "test
> drive" HSLDA.
>
> Together we can make a difference!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> J. Michael Smith
Natalie, thanks for the information, but please read this post:
http://www.hsinjustice.com/2009/03/hslda.html
Dear Ms Vanessa Mills,
I read about your case in the Chicago Tribune, and was in total disbelief about the ruling. I am hoping you can keep your children at home and educate them successfully as you have been doing. I myself am a teacher in Illinois, and VERY supportive of homeschooling. Your children will be MORE disruptive if they have to go to school....middle school environment is NOT supportive and will CREATE more social difficulties. I will be happy to help in any way. Please email if you need any lesson plans, etc. jjjesb@comcast.net/Jennifer Garcia
Good luck and God Bless
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