Judge Mangum said:
"You've done well in homeschooling, done a good job." But he then ordered that the children be placed in public school.
"I think they'll do better in public school." Despite the fact that two of the children are already two grades ahead for their age.
Public school will "prepare these kids for the real world and college ... be able to also have socialization." Despite the evidence clearly showing extra-curricular activities, field trips, ample opportunities for socializing, and preparation for the "real world."
"This is not about religion."
But public school will "challenge the ideas you've taught them."
"Mr. Mills conduct is less than to be desired." Apparently, this is the only censure for the crime of adultery (NC statute 14-184) in Judge Mangum's courtroom. Mr. Mills was granted almost all of his requests for the temporary orders.
But "proximity is an advantage." Never mind the emotional stress and confusion for Venessa Mills and her children, while Mr. Mills continues to play tennis with his mistress.
"I'm not going to rule on when you need to move out." In effect, leaving Mr. Mills with the freedom to stay in the home as long as he wants, continuing an unstable environment for the children, and using his leaving as a bargaining tool to make Venessa Mills agree to his demands for splitting their property.
Venessa Mills mental health evaluation, and the custody evaluation, are to be paid with a "50/50 split." Despite Venessa not being given the financial means to pay for this. And no mental evaluation at all for Mr. Mills.
"I'm not going to micromanage." In reality, no management was done at all - other than to impose public school on the children, provide the lowest child support amount, and conditions that make it impossible for Venessa Mills to continue homeschooling or even living in the family home.
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23 comments:
Now they will be indoctrinated by lies and deception of the public school system and emotionally beaten by a system who teaches nothing like there parents . Those in home school are the only strength we hold in reserve to save this hell bound country. Fight for them they are the future of freedom.
It looks like this is a very disturbing case. If you can, can you please post the transcript of the court proceedings. This way the judges comments can be read in context.
Robyn, I want to encourage you with this verse:
Ps. 46:10 "Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth."
Note that this judge will have his day in court where he will have to explain this to God. I don't envy what he is bring on himself...
DON'T put the kids in public school!!!!! The public school system is a broken, run down, giant that fails at every level. Do what ever it takes to keep the kids out of those decrepid class rooms in public school.
I am appalled by this absolutely outrageous ruling! I am praying that making this case public will help to reveal the biased views of judges and cause this travesty of justice to be undone! Anne H., Jacksonville, Florida
It is time for all the Christians out there to rally behind the mother and her children. Pray for their needs and that God will intervene in this outrageous ruling, and that we all would provide support to the mother and the children in anyway they need it.
Public School is bad, but it can not damage the children (too much) if they can see the CHRIST-LIKE love of fellow Christians. Christians must show Love and support so that the world will want what we have to offer rather than the Godless world they are providing.
Pray for this family...
Thanks for covering this story and bringing it to the world to view.
I am a Christian homeschooling parent, and a survivor of a legal challenge to my decision to homeschool my oldest son under very similar circumstances. But I am alarmed at this rallying of homeschoolers in a divorce case where the father wants the kids in public school. That's the case in a majority of homeschooling divorce situations.
This isn't a case of two parents deciding to homeschool, and some judge coming in willy-nilly and saying the kids have to go to school. It's a judge deciding in a custodial dispute between homeschool and public school, and this kind of dispute happens all the time, why is this WND headline news?
My oldest son's homeschooling was legally challenged when he was 11 for the same reasons mentioned in the article. In our case, the judge decided along with me. The primary reason was the fact I foresaw this challenge could occur, so my son was with an independent study charter school and had many outside classes (not just one club), the decision went way beyond his academic performance, especially by this age.
Since that experience five years ago, I've been a member of homeschooling divorce elists and connected with divorcing families. There are special considerations for homeschooling in custody cases, because there is no doubt it favors the homeschooling parent by giving them far more time with the kids than the other parent. It's tricky for mediators and judges, and if the parents aren't in agreement, it may seem fairest for the kids to be in school to level things out. I would have been incensed had they done that to my son, but the reality is, they do have to consider both sides in such a dispute.
This has nothing at all to do with my husband's and my joint decision to homeschool our three children, however, this case is no more threatening than what routinely happens in divorce courts. It's sad for the kids, assuming they wanted to continue homeschooling as my son did. That age is when I would least want to disrupt the status quo and send them to school. I recall our public mediator commenting that 6th grade was the worst time to make a change unless there was a truly compelling reason to do so, and that affected her decision, she outright said she was biased against homeschooling. But I don't see it having any affect on our decision.
I think we homeschoolers need to pay attention to the fact that this isn't an attack on parents, the judge is in fact validating a parental decision. It's just not the decision of the homeschooling parent in this case. Had the judge validated the mom's decision, it would have "stripped" the father of his "right to decide what is best for his children's education." I'm absolutely sure my son's father felt violated when he lost his legal challenge, and he was a credentialed teacher, he certainly felt he was better qualified to judge our son's educational needs. When the courts did not agree with him, should he have contacted WND because his parental rights were violated, and would WND print a headline, "Judge violates father's rights and orders kids to continue homeschooling"? Connecting this to the California case is apples to oranges, and will only cause negative homeschool press, in my opinion.
Julie in California
The judge wants them prepared to live in an amoral society with their values reduced to liberal standards. In public school they'll learn how to use condoms, have sex with their teachers and bash religion and conservatives. AND, they get to do that with kids their own age! What a deal! I'm being facititious!
This judge has expressed liberal values that the state knows what's best for people and should be promptly removed from office. Does this judge have to win re-election?
-Swathdiver!
My kids were in the wake co school system. My son's lit teacher started each class grumbling that she should be retired by now, but instead she has to teach these brats. Nice! not to mention the disruptions due to behavioral problems in the class. We had to move districts it was so inferior to the schools in Charlotte, and we were in the sought after school district. What a disservice this judge would be doing to these kids. He should spend a day in a Wake co. middle school.
We're making our phone calls against this right now. I'm in NC and want to homeschool my son who is 4 right now but intelligent for his age. This judge is being utterly ridiculous. He's pushing his own personal interests rather than fact. I will be praying about this.
DrmnOfHeaven (Jen)
This court action scares me as a mother in this same situation, divorced and still homeschooling my children, but with one difference.....my former husband does support my homeschooling at least by allowing me to continue (I think he would actually prefer not too and could make it very difficult for me as this lady's husband has done) -- we live $200 under poverty level, and any emergency could force a change in our current situation but frugally and by grace alone we make it
I will be praying for this mother, and for the judge to see reason, maybe for the husband as well
- the children's lives will be further disrupted by placing them in public school -- trying to keep as normal a routine helps get children thru a divorce
- the actions of the father in this case seem to done in anger toward his wife and with no thought of the well being of his children -- if as a family they have been together for at least 13 years (I believe 12 was the age of the eldest child) then his wife's religious beliefs should not surprise him, nor should the homeschooling
- The husband sounds as though he wishes to do what he wants to do and have no bounds placed on him of responsibility at the expense of his children and the courts/judge seem to agree with him
- I will say an extra prayer or many for the fact that my former husband did at least decide that money could take the place of his responsibility, allowing me to continue to homeschool and raise my children at home
The Mills children are not unsocialized I would like to enter two of my blogs in evidence.
http://whatidoatthelibrary-eformanator.blogspot.com/
http://homeschoolersunfoldinghistory.blogspot.com/
These children are active and successful.
Elaine Forman
Poor kids. This is not about home schooling. This is just another divorce case where the stay at home parent wants to continue to live the same way as before the separation/divorce. There are way too many issues at hand that have nothing to do with home schooling. The mother's religion, the father's adultry, shared custody, family involvement, outside opinions, etc. Bottom line is the kids suffer. They love BOTH of their parents. Quit putting them in the middle and trying to make them choose sides. Do I believe parents should be able to choose how their kids are educated (home schooling, private schooling, private Christian schooling, public schooling). Yes, I do. But I also know many kids who are in public schools who are Christians, well educated, and will be productive members of society. I also know teachers in public schools who are Christian's. I strongly believe it is the parents responsibility to teach Christian values (if that is their religion)AT HOME, lead by example, be involved, be active in the community, etc. Sayng Christian values can only be taught in home schooling and that public schools are "bad" is a slap in the face to parents and children across the country who do not have the financial means to be a stay at home parent who home schools. I am not a advocate of divorce. But I also know it is not healthy for children to grow up in a divided house with one parent miserable. Kids are not stupid. They know when parents don't get along. All they want is to be able to love both parents, whether or not the parents are together. I can honestly say that no one except the parents know exactly what this is all about. I just know it is about more than home schooling.
Anonymous who said this is about more than homeschooling is exactly right.
This is about a mother wanting to live the same life as a stay-at-home mother she lived before the divorce.
Yes, your husband had a mistress. But that is between you and him, and had NOTHING to do with the children.
Put your hurt feelings from that aside, and realize you may have to now get a job and put your kids in public schools (which can be wonderful, by the way) to make things work in your new reality.
This is despicable. Teach your kids to choose their mates wisely. Divorce is a gift that keeps on giving and if you have children,,,they are the ones to receive the gifts...and, any person that will enter your or your spouses life in the future. I feel for the mother, but oftentimes, the way we learn from our mistakes is by looking in the mirror at what is going on with our children....These are all discussions that should have happened in the dating phase of the relationship...Did we not know eachothers feelings about how we wanted to raise our children? We knew enough about eachother to have children,,,,then we should know enough about eachother to know what we want out of life. This is besides the point, I know, because what is done is done, but perhaps others (your children...others children) can learn that the smartest thing you can do in life, is be picky about your partner in life...afterall, this is the person that will influence your children.....Good luck with the case.
I disagree. This is about homeschooling and parental rights! No judge would say that you have to remove your children from any private school and place them in public school just because he thinks the public school is better.
The custodial parent has and should have every right to choose where and how the children will be educated within the law. Because he did not give a reason of how homeschooling has been or will be in any way harmful to the children, this judge is quite simply and obviously expressing his personal disapproval in the choice to homeschool.
Worse, this case could set a precedence so judges could order from the bench how and where all children, involved in divorces or any other cases within family court, will be educated just because of his/her prejudices against whatever the parents believe and/or teach. This kind of thing cannot be allowed.
Although the case "supposedly" is not about religion, as to your post, Anonymous: I strongly believe it is the parents responsibility to teach Christian values (if that is their religion)AT HOME, lead by example, be involved, be active in the community, etc. Sayng Christian values can only be taught in home schooling and that public schools are "bad" is a slap in the face....
Yet, the fact that Christianity has been reduced to modern pleasantries like "values" and "community service" shows me how much our real "education" about the Lord is lacking.
------ I bet if someone was to look into the Judge's past they would find he is divorced
A family that decides to have one parent stay at home with the children, have that right, and many view it as a responsibility to provide that for their child(ren), but suddenly when there is a divorce, the parent who held that stay-at-home position, has that right/responsibility ripped from them, and the children have that security removed -- in the name of fairness
adultery is not viewed as a crime or even a moral problem in this country any more -- way to many male (predominant white) lawmakers/judges/lawyers have committed it and have done their best to make it easy and acceptable for others to commit (i don't even blame the entertainment machine for this one), and because the court system is predominantly male it is favorable skewed towards men
women fought hard for equal rights, and what is happening in the case is viewed as equal in the eyes of many -- which is sad for these children and socity as a whole
research paper after research paper has proven that children who's parent stay together (baring abuse), and who have a stay at home parent have fewer problems and are better off
Did this judge have his parental rights threatened in his own life? Did he attend public school? His personal beliefs should not prejudice him against the mother. Has he ever been home schooled? Our schools are a disgrace and don't prepare are children for the real world.
Could someone not involved in this church please post a comment. Or do you only allow comments through that agree with your position?
You posted only what quotes by the judge you wanted people to see. If you want justice post the entire transcripts so people can get an accurate view of things.
My brother in-law home schools one of his children I believe in home schooling in the a manner that is geared towards the mental health of the children.
Adultery is a terrible thing and should never be dismissed. But don't you think it is much worse to teach your children only what you want them to know? Don't you think that it's a terrible crime to put the brains of your children in a small room with no window of opportunity to develop their own thoughts or ideas? Is it so unjust to let them learn for themselves what kind of a person they should be? Or did Jesus teach that parents should control every aspect of their children's lives including what they believe?
Anonymous: 99.9% of the comments on this blog are from people totally unconnected with Venessa Mills or her church. Also, if you take the time to read them all, you'll find that there are many that express differing points of view.
We can only post what we have available to us, and the quotes that get the point across. If you want to get a more "accurate" view of things, you're welcome to request the records yourself from the court.
Obviously, you also have no idea of the breadth of education that Venessa is giving her children, or the choices that are already open to them in their homeschooling, as your questions are misinformed.
Well, I am not from the same church. I am not even in that state, thankfully.
"But don't you think it is much worse to teach your children only what you want them to know?"
Too late! My daughter is seven years old and has learned things that I did not even know and some things I rather she did not know because of her age. You really cannot have a child grow up that sheltered unless you live in a remote area, never watch TV, or just keep him shut up in a closet. The closet thing is real abuse and the rest is just how it is for some children--doesn't cause them harm.
"Don't you think that it's a terrible crime to put the brains of your children in a small room with no window of opportunity to develop their own thoughts or ideas?"
That is exactly how I feel, which is why I don't have my child in public school. Don't you remember having teachers telling you how to think?
"Is it so unjust to let them learn for themselves what kind of a person they should be?"
It has been my experience that people are going to be who they want to be as adults regardless of how they are raised as children and typically if they are unhappy about who they are, they will blame even the best parents because of it, regardless of where and how they were educated.
"Or did Jesus teach that parents should control every aspect of their children's lives including what they believe?"
I believe in Jesus' time most children in his own village would have been either educated by their parents or by the religious leaders, the rich may have hired tutors. Children worked as soon as they were able. Marriages were arranged. I believe what some might consider control issues regarding children were commonplace and I seriously doubt such issues were considered a problem then.
Just some thoughts....
There seems to be a lot of questions here.
The father says Venessa is a good mother and taught the childern well. Then why would the judge even suggest a mental evaluation? The judge made a comment that Venessa was brainwashed. In what way? By who? If he even suggested it she was brainwashed because of her Christian beliefs, then this goes past a judge taking away perental rights it is a judge throwing out the constitution. He has no authority to make a judgement about any religion or someone's lack of religion.
The judge says he is doing everthing for the welfare of the childern, yet he lets the father live in the home. How much stress and resentment will that put on the children towards their father as they watch him go out with his mistress which they have taught is wrong? Or watching their mother get emotionally torn apart evertime he leaves to be with the mistress or worse has the mistress over?
I'm not from their church and I'm not from the same state either. This is all about money and the father's lack of - well - let me just say "fathering" as to be nice about it. The man could care less how his kids are educated. It's not about those kids in his world because in his world he's too busy being concerned with his own wants and needs. That's not parenting.
And I can guarantee you that you won't find a homeschooler in my area who homeschools in order to keep their children sheltered.
The judge is clearly bias as most people are when it comes to homeschooling. However, in his position, being ignorant should not be an acceptable excuse.
The problem with your argument Robyn is that you posit that the "anonymous" commentators are off-base because they do not know the whole story without even providing the full transcript, or a recording of the proceedings for us, the readers, to evaluate. Instead, you tell us to petition the court for access to the records. If you were trying to make your case stronger, wouldn't you have the hard evidence to support your case present on your site or in a post for all to see (something I learned in a public school, no less).
The media does not give us the full story, and being close to one of the parties puts you in the same position. By being close to one of the parties or their individual situation, you are no less biased than the judge you are rallying against.
The father has a right to want his children educated in a public school if he does not agree with the educational value of a home-school program. Compliments aside, doing a decent or great job home-schooling children is nothing more than a compliment. See, the fact is how is a single parent supposed to support her children while teaching them at home if she can't have a job because she is teaching her kids? One of the paramount requirements in a custody case involves income. If a parent can't make X number of dollars and provide certain needs, that parent may get a reduced amount of custody time.
Scream religious persecution all you want. The underlining fact is that a home-school parent has no means of income, and being exposed to other views is not as damaging as it may seem (this coming from a former Christian private school student to a successful graduate from the public school system). My parents taught me values outside of the classroom that have helped me be successful. One does not need to home-school their children to teach them values, unless keeping them sheltered from the outside world is part of the process (known as brainwashing).
Kudos to the judge for doing a job none of us here have the qualifications to perform, nor could do effectively.
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